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Podcast Transcript

The Yinyang of Leadership

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  0:11  
Welcome to "Your Authentic Path To Powerful Leadership" with Marsha Clark where we believe there's a better way to be a woman today. Join us on this journey where we uncover what it actually takes to be a powerful woman leader!

Marsha, welcome back yet again. I know this probably starts to sound a little repetitive after a while, but I'm really excited about today's episode. And I think I enjoy the juicy topics the most. So this I think this one's gonna be juicy for our listeners.

Marsha Clark  0:44  
Well, I have to laugh a little bit. So first of all, let me say... Yes! Welcome back! We love it when you come back and join us again. But I just wonder how many of our listeners have heard the words "juicy" and "leadership" in the same sentence?

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  1:00  
No, none...

Marsha Clark  1:03  
Probably not. And yet, that's what we think about because this is really good stuff. Right? So you're right, so the discussion that we're gonna have around this topic, you know. The title of it is "The Yin-Yang of Leadership." And we've all heard the Yin-Yang. And I do want to say something about that before we get started into some of the content because as we were doing the research for, you know, this podcast today, I learned something about the word yin-yang. It's pronounced a couple of different ways. And you know, so you may hear it, Yin Yang, or you may hear it Yin Yong, which, you know, so know that those are one in the same. But the the idea is, we often talk about the yin and the yang. And the word is "Yin-Yang" that go together. There's no break in that word which I think gives it an even more powerful context and meaning given what we're going to talk about today. So I just wanted our leaders, our listeners, rather, to hear this as it relates to the yin-yang of leadership.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  2:11  
Well, and we are recording this in Texas, so it will be "yin-yang" and "yin-y-a-a-a-ang." So the names of all of our episodes are very deliberate, and this one is no different. So why the yin-yang of leadership?

Marsha Clark  2:30  
Yeah, so we named it this for a couple of reasons. The symbol, as as many of us will know, the symbol for Yin-Yang is pretty universal. It is universal. So it's the circle. If you think about a circle with the complementary teardrop shapes. One's kind of upside down. One is dark and one is light. They're nestled very tightly against each other. And each of those teardrops has a small circle with the opposite color inside of it. So the black teardrop has a white circle and vice versa. So the dark teardrop representing Yin has light within it, and the light teardrop representing Yang holds darkness within it. Now, both of those together represent the wholeness, right, and this the dance of the dark in the light, or between the dark and the light. And that's our lives, right? We have darkness; we have light. And it's it's not a blend. It's not a graying of each other, but a clear distinction of the two while they balance and hold each other in wholeness. I just love that phrase. So the symbol reflects the masculine and the feminine in all things. It's a concept that again, long historical concept, and one that shows or reflects that we all hold both energies within us. And that you might think of that as the darkness and the light is the wholeness, and the feminine and the masculine is the wholeness. And so we're going to all of us, each of us are going to have both of these characteristics. So we really like the idea of using the symbolism of the Yin-Yang image to really represent the contrasting nature of masculine and feminine, and yet how they both represent the wholeness of each of us.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  4:25  
Well, and I didn't realize before this episode that Yin-Yang was most properly pronounced together as one word because I've always heard it is the yin and the yang. I mean, you know, I think people say that in movies and so you hear it that way. But I think it's so appropriate for our topic today. And I love like you this idea of holding masculine and feminine each side is holding the opposite side within each other.

Marsha Clark  4:56  
Well, and when you think about it represented again, is that yin and yang... It feels separate, right? Like there's two different things. But that while each has its own unique characteristics, they are in fact that one, the united wholeness. So that's really why I love how, because in the concepts and the teaching that I do, it really, is about the wholeness aspect of it.

So what we're going to do today, the topic we're going to cover about recognizing the duality of the masculine and feminine energy and the attributes of all of us, and how through that recognition, and by us making deliberate choices, we can manage and flow with that energy more easily more effectively. It's kind of like tapping into the entire energy source that I didn't even know I had, right? But how do I find those parts in me that maybe one is more familiar, or one is more easily accessible? Because it's how I've grown up and my default behaviors and patterns, if you will? But how do I tap into an even greater energy source and buy more parts of me This is that self awareness, self knowledge, self concept, so that I can have more tools in my toolkit and a broader set of perspective and capability?

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  6:16  
Right. Well, this idea of men and women holding both masculine and feminine energy is something that you've been teaching about and coaching on for quite some time. Where did that idea come from, for you? Through your own experience or a resource?

Marsha Clark  6:34  
Well, it was really both. So I think at some level, I've probably intuitively been aware of this as as I was growing up, and, you know, I may not have called it that or been able to label it in some way or even understand it, but I did. You know, I was just being me. Right? So this idea of, I didn't, I didn't, wasn't very intentional about it, not very aware of it. And so I really couldn't call on it, I just kind of defaulted or stumbled my way through it. So I think I've mentioned before, I've been a "tomboy" most of my life. And I know what that means in our culture is that I was just as comfortable playing with the boys as I was with the girls. So I had two older brothers and I was out playing baseball and climbing trees, and, you know, just very comfortable with that what I would also often described as the competitive energy of boys. And, you know, we're going to do several podcasts on the topic of some gender differences and visible differences, if you will. So I don't want to go too deep here, but I was observing enough to see that different people showed up differently across the genders. I knew some girls and women who were very feminine, you know, that was the energy they gave off, if you will, and like doing things that really fit more clearly within the feminine, stereotypical behaviors. And I also knew some girls and women like me who didn't fit into those boxes. And some things that same thing was with males that I knew they didn't always fit nicely into boxes, which I think is the beauty of, you know, society and humanity and the diversity that we all and each bring with some sense of that authenticity that we talk about a lot.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  8:20  
And what are some concrete examples of these stereotypical behaviors?

Marsha Clark  8:26  
Well, so I think it might be interesting to ask our listeners to answer that question for themselves first, before I I offer up... So you know, think for a minute. Make a few notes. What have I noticed about how, you know, boys or men act? Or how girls and women act, and so on? So here's a question for everyone to consider... If you were to use some adjectives to describe feminine behaviors, what words would you use? Just take a couple of notes about that. And this isn't about men versus women, because again, remembering that we have it all inside of us. And we can both demonstrate that masculine and feminine energy. You know, as you get really clear on what you experience as feminine energy, this is where you may have some insights about how you're seeing the world and women and men who display variations of these both of these kinds of energy. So, think or write down those five behaviors that are you think are uniquely feminine. And so here we're talking about the Yin, the "Y-I-N" feminine energy. So what does that look or feel like?

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  9:39  
Yeah, so I'm going to jump in with this... Just the things that are that are popping up in my head. I have a couple of things on the negative side and then a couple are what I view is the negative side and a few things on the positive side. So I'm going to start with the negative like when you talk about behaviors that women show or perform, my first thought that jumped in my head was this tendency to raise our hand, like we're in a meeting, and we want and we have something to say we want to interrupt it. But instead of just saying it, we do this little raise of the hand like we're back in first grade right now in Mrs. Shipman's class. So there's that. And then number two is the tendency to say "I'm sorry" about EVERYTHING that happens in life. You know, you're just taking that on. But then on the positive side, I think feminine behaviors are things like nurturing, caring, multitasking, you know, trying to make sure that everyone's happening. Every everyone's happy, sorry, not happening, you know, or maybe happening also. Those are the those are the kinds of things that I think are maybe unique, but then men are also nurturing, caring. So let's explore that. Also, you know, getting into what, what men... What are behaviors on the masculine side?

Marsha Clark  11:10  
Yeah, and again, it's behaviors, but it what, what vibe, are they sending out? What energy are they sending out? Let's do that for men. So let's invite our listeners to do that. So this is the same thing for the "Yang" or the masculine energy. So what words or behaviors pop into your head with that as you think about masculine energy,

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  11:32  
I get for that one I think about loudness. You know, yes, just putting their voice in the room not being afraid to do that, as you described on a previous episode. You know, that your Power Lab experience just that immediate behavior of taking charge taking over, like, that's the first inclination that men have. And then also, something around just the competitiveness of that or have a vertical hierarchy structure is a behavior also.

Marsha Clark  12:12  
Right. That one up one down kind of relationship in the hierarchy. So I those are not surprising words. Anything that you've said, and this when I think of the words feminine, so I did the exercise to just because I always want to think about where's my head, in all of this. And so I have some similar words to you. When I think of feminine energy, I think about caring and nurturing and tending.  Right? So whether it is caring for the family, caring for my team, caring for the client, caring for, you know, the community, the kids at school, whatever it may be so that caring, and nurturing. And I when I think of women, I do think of multitasking, because I just think we have so many things we're trying to accomplish with all the different roles that we play. And it doesn't mean that men don't multitask, or, as you said, care and nurture. It's just those are the first words that come to mind when I think of them. And the other thing for me, for the feminine energy is pleasing. And the empathy, we can kind of empathize with what the other person's going through. We can, we can read the nonverbals. We can, you know, we take on the feelings of the other person. That's to me where empathy plays a role. And the pleasing is doing for everyone else sometimes to the detriment of ourselves because we're more concerned about pleasing others. And then what the what I think of as masculine energy is a physical strength, right? Men are, by and large, larger, physically stronger. And that that it can sometimes be overwhelming just by the physical strength. I remember I was coaching a CEO of a hospital. And he told me, he said, people tell me they're scared of me all the time. Well, this was a guy who was six foot four, and had, to your point about loudness, a booming voice. And so he could just be saying, "Hello! How are you?" down the hall, and it just, you know, kind of startled everybody because it was so overwhelming. And so that's a part of it. This idea of dominance is that same. I mean, I use the word dominance. You use the word hierarchy, or you know, that that it is the men I think of them as liking to be in that upper, that one-up kind of position. And I also think about the competitive nature of men. And I'll be honest with you, and I want to be honest with our listeners... The other word that came to mind, as we think about men is entitled. And, I know we use that word a lot with millennials and all that kind of thing, but I think men in many ways, it's just been the normal course of the world that they get, you know, more. Now, there's a lot, a lot of reasons for that. And I'm not here to go about that. But if I just think about the masculine energy that entitlement is something that is a word that that pops in pretty quickly.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  15:01  
It's interesting to me that our lists were similar and where we didn't coordinate. Yeah, we didn't compare notes before recording this episode. So wouldn't you think that everybody's list would be different? At least a little bit?

Marsha Clark  15:16  
Well, yes, and no. It depends. Yeah, in a small sample with just our so the list, you know, are going to be what they're going to be. But just like we did, the powerful women are exercise that we did in Episode 10. And that, you know, the title of that one was beyond bossy, bully, bitchy, that over time, we began to see some pretty consistent trends in these responses. So whether it is around the globe, or whatever kind of structure, corporate, for profit, not for profit, education, and so on, there are some pretty consistent answers. You know, but the list gets longer, but you see a lot of repetition, right. And the reason that Yin Yang symbol, and what it represents is so universal and timeless is because the concept of feminine masculine, and, excuse me, feminine and masculine energy is universal and timeless. So it's not by accident. It's even through our most contemporary lenses. So the the energy is the energy, whether it's a woman or a man feeling it or demonstrating it. So my goal is to help women access that broader range of energy, how to find those parts of ourselves that maybe haven't been discovered. So, you know, the way that I think about it, because I've heard this so many times is that some women come into my programs, because they've been told they're too soft, right? Which is then that more feminine energy, and they want to toughen up, right? So this idea of I gotta, I gotta find some, you know, that strong that strengthen me to not be so soft. And then I've also had the reverse of that. So women come in and say, I've been told I'm too tough, I gotta find some soft stuff in me. And and both are true, right? And that's the idea is that none of us I would never tell anyone that they need to be hard or soft. It's we all know, my deal is it depends and great leaders know what tool to use when I want to help you know, what to choose, right, given the situation, the circumstances, the outcomes that you're trying to achieve. And that all goes back again, to our foundational elements. And I just want to reiterate that, is that the answer to every question is, it depends. So there's not one standard, I need to always be this or always be that. And that, how do I choose which is which, or which I want to, you know, find inside of me and pull out based on what I'm trying to achieve, so that I can make good choices.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  17:50  
Right? I just love this idea that like the Yin-Yang symbol, the masculine and the feminine energy are separate, but yet they're both connected. It's like they dance and with the symbol. You know? They're still two different images incorporating both black and white, but when they're connected, that create this whole...

Marsha Clark  18:12  
That that's the word wholeness, yeah. Recognizing it, I want our listeners to take away all of us have feminine and masculine in us men, women, both, right, and they, that represents our wholeness.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  18:27  
So before we talk about how all this relates to our authentic path to powerful leadership, do you mind sharing with the listeners a little bit about one of the activities you do around this whole masculine feminine attributes concept?

Marsha Clark  18:44  
Yeah, I would love to. You know, and as most times I have to provide some background around this because I want people to know where this is coming from. So as I was researching gender stereotypes, I discovered the work of Dr. Sandra Bem. And she conducted studies asking people to describe a wide range of attributes as either masculine or feminine. So she had this long list of words that were attributes, and she just asked people would you consider this masculine or feminine, and she updated her list periodically, so that as things in the world changed, she captured the more current thinking. And so over time, she amassed this enormous amount of information. And she basically ended up with three basic list and one included the words that most strongly identified as feminine. The second list was a word, the words that most strongly identified as masculine. And the third and by far, the longest list included, those that were androgynous, are basically those attributes that that did not strongly identify as either masculine or feminine. So what I wanted to do is to take her work and provide a way to raise self awareness around these attributes. So I'd developed a little self assessment tool to score yourself on what she her research showed us were the top 20 attributes that were strongly identified as feminine and the top 20 that were also strongly identified as masculine. And what we did is we put a list of those 40 attributes, so 20 plus 20, and alphabetical order. And we sent it out as pre work in one of our program sessions. And we never mentioned the words masculine or feminine, we just asked our participants to list themselves as low, medium, or high in how often or frequently they displayed these attributes at work, and not at work. So that was this the tool itself.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  20:46  
Oh, my gosh... How can people access this self assessment tool? This is fascinating.

Marsha Clark  20:52  
Yeah, it is fascinating. I have to tell you, when I first did it, I tested it at a family Thanksgiving dinner. So not only did you self-assess, others got to tell you how they saw you. And it created quite some conversation. You can find this in my book. So the "Embracing Your Power" book, and in it are... It's just like doing the exercise, the pre-work, and then how to score it, and then how to interpret it in the book.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  21:20  
So once I have this information, and I've scored myself, what do I make? How do I make sense of the score? What's the score mean?

Marsha Clark  21:27  
Yeah, so interpreting, so let me tell you what we do next. So we had them, you know, give them the results of their assessments after we translated and what we do is low is worth one point medium is worth three and highest worth five. So you have four columns, you have a feminine column that is broken down into at work and not at work, and you have a masculine column at work not at work. So you get four columns of information. And the possible score for each of those columns is 20, to 100. So if I scored low on all 20, that's one point times 20. If I score high, that's five times 20. So just to give you a bit of that, that range. And so what I do then is have the participants lineup shoulder to shoulder facing me, and I say organize yourself from your at work scores low to high. So after they're lined up, I asked them to just read off their number at the at the at work. So first we do masculine than we do feminine at work. And the reason I encourage them to call out the number is I want them to see the wide range, right? So women can be from, you know, the score of 35 to 98, or 100, I've actually had one person that was 100. And this idea of we're not all the same and even that, I mean, on the one hand, we can intellectually go yeah, we're not the same. All women are not exact, you know, we can't put us all in one bucket. And yet, this is a visual display. Of that being true, you know, that we don't see ourselves as the same. And we can show up very differently.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  23:12  
Right. So I totally remember this exercise in the Power Of Self program. And personally, I wasn't surprised that I scored high on the masculine at work attributes. I was surprised at two things. Number one, the variety, the wide variety of everyone in the room's scores, but then I was also surprised at this realization that my behavior at work can be completely different than my my behavior at home. Like my scores are different, right? And what that what that meant and how I felt about that was a little bit strange, but are the...  Is that unusual?

Marsha Clark  23:54  
So so I will tell you, there's there's almost always a wide range of scores in whether I'm doing this with men or women or men and women because I've done it in all of these ways. And what we then, as you know, we we ask everyone in the line regardless of their score, "How does it work for you and how does it work against you?" Because I think that's a really important question. Because this is a conversation tool. It's not a I'm labeling you are divine tool, and it's self reported. So you're getting to say how you think you're showing up. So you know, again, that wide variety you all men are not alike. All women are not alike. So quit trying to put us all in one bucket.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  24:39  
Yeah, yeah. Well, so clearly you do this with men too. What did their scores look like? Like, is there this dis....? Like I feel like with women, there's a disparity between the how they show up at work and then how they show up at home. Is there such a disparity in men? Or, maybe there is... Like, how are they different?

Marsha Clark  25:01  
Well, you've hit on one of the biggest difference that I see is that women not at work, and that's more than home, but it's not in my professional setting, but they're not at work. And, at work scores have a broader difference a broader variation. Men at work and not at work. Their scores are more similar right. Now, I will say one other thing is that when I have older people in the program, there's also less variance. So that's a differentiation based on whether it's maturity or I don't care anymore.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  25:45  
Right... you get what you get.

Marsha Clark  25:47  
Well, it's the Popeye effect... I call it "I am who I am!" you know. And so I think there's an aspect of that. The key question there, though, is does that is that person that keeps showing up consistently? are we achieving what we hope to achieve? Do we have the kind of relationships we want to have? Are people willing to, you know, follow us as leaders and that sort of thing, because I don't want us to rest on our laurels or get lazy and just say, well, this is me deal with it, because that's not effective leadership. So I think there's a lot again, there's a lot of that conversation that goes on. And one person may interpret the word one way and one another. And even that's an eye-opening learning experience.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  26:29  
Right? So let's drill down just a little bit deeper. How does all this information help me be a better, more authentic leader?

Marsha Clark  26:38  
Yeah. So it's not just an interesting exercise, though it is. But that's not enough so that you're asking the right question at the right time here. So one, and this is he can kind of think about this as part of our wrap up as well, because we all remembering we all have the masculine and feminine, the yin-yang energy, and there are no right or wrong scores. So if I'm low, okay, I'm low. If I'm high, okay, I'm high. The bigger questions are, is it working for me or against me, and whether I'm in the "at work" headspace, or the "not at work" headspace and to also know that your scores can and will likely change over time. You know? We're ever-growing, learning and evolving human beings. And we can add skills and abilities as we mature and advance in our careers and our lives, and have more perspective and and say, Oh, I tried that, I never would have tried that before. Oh, and I live to tell about, it worked more effectively. So we're learning and growing and building. And really, that all 30 attributes, the 20 masculine and the 20 feminine are tools in our toolkits, that's the key there in us, we just have to be able to get to find them, and then know when to call upon them, and then know how to use them effectively. And at different times in in different situations, we're gonna choose different attributes. And we may even choose a different combination of attributes. And then another important aspect when you're comparing that at work and not at work, each of us need to answer this question. So why for a single attribute, whatever it might be that's on the list, would I score myself differently for at work and not at work? I have to answer that question, because I'm the one who provided the answers. Is it because I'm trying to please someone else, and therefore trying to conform to some profile of what they want me to be? That's one option? Or am I thoughtfully and strategically choose it choosing to display a certain attribute? Because I think it's going to help me achieve a desired outcome. That's not me conforming to someone else? That's me deciding. And then based on how you answer those questions, it can produce a very different feeling inside of us. So this idea of, if I'm doing it to please someone else, it's energy draining, I'm exhausted, you know, and it's a way that I get my power away to let someone else define me. And therefore, it's very disempowering. So energy draining, giving my power away, and disempowering if I'm doing it to conform, or please. Now, if I choose to strategically behave in a certain way, that's energy giving, I mean, I'm energized, I think about why I could do X or I could do I'm going to choose y for these reasons. So I'm holding on to my power doing it because I think it's the best way to go not not necessarily doing it. I may take others thoughts and opinions. You know, my own perspective, but I'm not doing I'm just following their orders, and therefore that's very empowering. And then here's a really important piece here. If you were watching me and in how I chose to show up in a specific situation, whether I'm doing it to please and conform, or whether I'm doing it strategically, it would look the same to you. You would know what my motivation or intentions were. And, and that's an important piece. And so where the importance of knowing whether I'm doing it to please or conform, or doing it strategically, is how I feel about it. Wow, I, it's it, this is my internal conversation. And if I'm feeling empowered, if I'm feeling that I'm holding on to my power, if I'm feeling very, you know, purposeful, and intentional and strategic about it, that is where I want to be, and I feel good about it. And I may please you, and you may feel good about it, but I don't necessarily feel good about it, because it wasn't really what I really wanted to do. Or it wasn't really me making my most deliberate choice it was other than in order to please you. So this is the internal aspect of this is what's so critically important.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  31:08  
Exactly, exactly. So, Marsha, as we wrap up here, what would you say are a few of our top takeaways from today's episode?

Marsha Clark  31:18  
Yeah, so I hope that listeners are really taking this to heart. So, one is that every one of us has that masculine and feminine energy, and that we have access to the power that is unique from both. I would never ask anybody to be something that they're not. I just want to... I also want to share that. Yep, what I want to do is help you find more of yourself to bring to the world. Because if you can do it, it's in you. It may not, it may not be the thing that you would audit be your automatic default or go to, because we rely on the energy where we're most comfortable that and yet, what's comfortable for us might not be the most effective leadership or might not really allow us to optimize our leadership potential. And so we might be missing out on some of those resources by shying away from either our Yin or Yang capabilities. And third is about being really clear about who you are, you know, being thoughtful and intentional, how do I want to show up getting clear about that, and then making those deliberate choices, because they are ours to make, we always have a choice around this. It may be uncomfortable, it may be unfamiliar, it may be high risk. And yet if I have the courage of my convictions to be my best me, and I've been thoughtful and intentional about it, then that's therein lies my power.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  32:49  
Wow. Yes, I just love this whole idea of the internal because it shows up as external, but it's all going on in your head. And you know to layer on top of that the idea of the masculine and the feminine, and what that looks like out in the world.

Marsha Clark  33:15  
Well, and I'd love to leave our listeners today with some it's a quote, it's a very long quote. But I think the concept here is I love the way it represents talked about today, this, this wholeness of the Yin-Yang. And so if I may read this...

"Every society in the history of the world has seen that yin-yang, the masculine and the feminine, are not limited to humans, or even just to animals. Every language that I know of, except English has masculine and feminine nouns. You know, the ESTA/ ESTE. So the sun is always He. The Moon is always She. The day is always He. The night is always She. The water is She. The rocks are He. So most of us today think that's projection of our own sexuality into the universe that makes us strangers to the universe. So this is the part I love. The shore is the most popular place on Earth. Waterfront property is the most expensive property anywhere in the world. Why? Because that's where the sea and the land meet. That's where man and woman meet. The land without the sea is kind of boring. It's desert. The sea without the land is kind of boring. Where are we going to land the ship? But the place where they meet? That's where ALL THE ACTION IS."  Isn't that awesome?

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  35:01  
Wow! It's so true. It is.

Marsha Clark  35:08  
So this is by Peter Kreeft. And it's his way of speaking about the Yin-Yang. But you know, it's like, you know, I can dance alone, you can dance alone. But you know, when we come together with a partner, there's a there's a different energy, there's a different power, there's the power of the touch, the power of the wholeness that we make up. When we when the shore meets the say, the See, I mean, I just think that when I just think it's a beautiful, physical representation of what we're trying to talk about in the thinking about ourselves in such a whole way.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  35:46  
And I love the comprehensiveness of taking these ideas and these concepts into a leadership level, like what we've just talked about. It feels very sociology, maybe right? Psychology. But taking that into a workplace and taking it into a situation where you need to be a leader is such a powerful idea because I feel like you're bringing again, your whole person into the scenario.

Marsha Clark  36:17  
Well, whether you like it or not, leadership is about the psychology which is about the human condition, and sociology, which is about group dynamics. So that is an important aspect. And we have many lessons to learn from psychology and sociology, because we're humans. And so being able to take that and translate it into effective leadership, whole leadership, authentic leadership. Now now, now we're on to something!

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  36:46  
Right! Well, listeners, you got a treat today! And thank you for joining us on this journey of authentic powerful leadership. Please download, subscribe, and share this podcast wherever you listen...  iTunes, Google, Spotify. And, please visit Marsha's website at for links to all the tools other resources we talked about today. Subscribe to her email list. Stay up to date on everything in Marsha's world. And you can definitely find out more about Marsha's latest book - "Embracing Your Power" - on the site as well as her social media.

Marsha Clark  37:26  
Well, I too want to thank the listeners for joining us today and hope that it has been a value to make it help you think a little bigger, broader, and open up some new possibilities. And DO get in touch with us. We love hearing from you! If you've got questions, thoughts, comments, please leave them on social media sites. Let us know what you're thinking on the website. Get in touch with me. And we hope that you'll join us again next week. And as always, here's to women supporting women!

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