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Podcast Transcript

Expanding Your Power

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  0:11  
Welcome to "Your Authentic Path to Powerful Leadership" with Marsha Clark. Join us on this journey where we're uncovering what it takes to be a powerful woman leader. Well, Marsha, you have no idea how much I've been looking forward to today. And although I say that a lot, I'm guessing you can absolutely understand how excited I am.

Marsha Clark  0:32  
Yes, Wendi, I can. I can totally relate to how exciting today is because today we are previewing my newest book. And it's entitled "Expanding Your Power: A Woman's Opportunity to Inspire Teams and Influence Organizations".

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  0:50  
Yeah, this is like my birthday and a Christmas all rolled into one because this for me, personally, is where I feel like I lack the most skill is the teams and organization piece. So I cannot wait for you to share the highlights of this book, give everyone some info on when they can expect the book to come out and what we'll be doing with the podcast for the rest of this year.

Marsha Clark  1:15  
Well, I'm happy as can be to be able to talk about the book and offer everyone the details as we know them at this point, because we are recording this in July and it won't come out until like early '24.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  1:27  
Right, exactly. So here we go. Now that we're here, well. And now I don't even know where to start. I guess let's open with a little background on how this book is different from but aligned to the first book, "Embracing Your Power". And I know you always had this second book in mind, even as you were writing the first one in the series, right?

Marsha Clark  1:49  
That's right. So, the plan was always to have three books in this series, if you will. The first one, "Embracing Your Power" is focused on building greater self awareness to maximize authentic leadership as well as adding behaviors and tools that lead to more meaningful interpersonal relationships. And for our longtime listeners, you know that most of the tools and content from that book aligned with our leadership workshops that we've been running for about the last 20 years, over 20 years.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  2:19  
Exactly. So, "Embracing Your Power" was like attending the first of three modules of your Power of Self Program in book form, right?

Marsha Clark  2:28  
That's right. And so the programs are designed to establish that foundation of self awareness and then move into the relationship based topics like building trust, working through conflict, recognizing differences. So, that was the focus for book one. Well, book two picks up where we left off and it covers the remaining topics that we would deliver in a typical multi-module or year-long program. And that content builds on the foundation we laid with the work at the individual and interpersonal levels and shifts the focus now to team and organizational awareness and effectiveness.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  3:08  
So, in reality, you've really, you've written two books, the first one being '"Choose" with Dottie Gandy, and then "Embracing Your Power". So technically, this is your third book as an author. What's that like to hear out loud? Your third book.

Marsha Clark  3:25  
Well, it feels pretty heady authoring two and co-authoring the first one, as you said, with my dear friend, Dottie. It's come rather easily because it wasn't like I had to sit down and figure out what to write. Each book was years in the making.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  3:43  
So, "Expanding Your Power" is the second book in this series that you planned. And so today, we're gonna go into detail about what's covered in the rest of this episode. But since we mentioned it, let's go ahead and talk about the plan or your intention for the third book in the series. What's the idea behind that book and how is it relating to the first two?

Marsha Clark  4:07  
Yeah, so, all three of the books relate to power. You might call this the power series, right, and so positional power, relational power, and what I think most importantly, personal power. So, the first two books, the "Embracing Your Power" and "Expanding Your Power", are teaching books and as we've said, they come from the longer term programs that I've been teaching now for almost 25 years. The third book I would characterize as a role modeling, inspirational book. So, it's different. And as our longtime listeners know, I end every podcast was some version of "Here's to women supporting women." So the third book is entitled "Enriching Your Power": A Woman's Choice to Lift Others Up". And in that book, we're going to share stories of women who have done just that. They've lifted others up. And I have some women in mind that I want to interview. And I'm betting that, you know, as the time comes for me to write that book, that women will be recommended to me and I'll interview them and perhaps meet new women and learn new ways of lifting others up because, Wendi, one of the things, and I remember even back to the "Choose" book that I co authored with Dottie, we would say this. We're standing on the shoulders of the women who came before us, and paved the way for the opportunities and the rights that we have today. And I want to showcase and celebrate women who have lived their values and purpose and supported other women doing so.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  5:46  
That's gonna be amazing, I mean, just the continuity of the stories themselves like from book one through book three. So let's focus today on book two. So you open"Expanding Your Power" with the same poem that you use to close "Embracing Your Power". So would you share that here and explain why that poem holds such a special place for you?

Marsha Clark  6:09  
Yeah. I'd love to. This poem, one of our Power of Self participants from class two, so all the way back to 2002, gave it to me and I've read it at every class graduation since that time. To me it really speaks about how often we as women get so many messages that we're not enough, and even at times that we're too much. Living our lives through our own eyes and defining success on our own terms is central to being what I would consider our best powerful, authentic selves. And I know we usually try to read poems in quotes twice, but this one's long, so I'm only going to read it once. Our listeners can find it in the transcript of the show if they'd like to read it for themselves. So, here goes. It's called "Embrace Your Own Greatness" by Lynette Ann Lane. "Live your life through your own eyes. Hold close your grandest vision of yourself. Do not compromise your greatness for another's vision. Express your own soul. You owe nothing to another, only to yourself. Be honest with yourself and your desires. Speak of your highest thoughts. Be All You held in your childhood dreams. No one can take away your power unless you were the one to give it away. Walk with your head held high so you can see everything clearly. Decide daily who you wish to be. Create your own moments with wisdom. Carve out your future with clarity. Become your desires. Expand your horizons. Leave yesterday behind. Run toward tomorrow. Change your mind often. Learn how to flow with the river. Close your eyes and let life take you. Go where your heart leads. Never give up. Don't believe that mistakes are destroyers of life. See them as gifts for future success. Dance on rainbows, meet fairies, sing with angels. And always give thanks for the treasure that is life."

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  8:35  
Wow. Okay, I have goosebumps. I mean, you know, there are several in there that means something to me. You know, walk with your head held high so you can see everything clearly. Decide daily who you wish to be. Run toward tomorrow. Those are some great phrases in here.

Marsha Clark  8:55  
I love it too. And no matter how many times I've read that it still gives me goosebumps, too. And you know, and I wrote this about this poem in the book. You know, an especially important part of this poem that speaks so loudly to me is that no one can take away your power unless you are the one to give it away. We spent a lot of time on that. This is one of the first lessons that I teach in every single program. And it isn't about positional or hierarchical power based on a job title or some box on an organization chart. Someone gives you that kind of power and therefore they can also take it away. And it's not even about relational power where you choose to partner with someone and try to accomplish something that neither of you could achieve on your own. This poem to me is it's all about personal power. And that's inside out power. It comes from within you. And we hold on to that power by being clear, thoughtful, being intentional. We know and live our grand vision. We live fully and we learn.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  10:03  
Yeah, what a beautiful transition from "Embracing Your Power" to Expanding Your Power". And you spend a little time at the beginning of "Expanding Your Power" with a call back to what it means to build that self awareness, and even bringing back one of my personal favorite characteristics of your first book, reflection questions.

Marsha Clark  10:26  
I love reflection questions, reflection exercises, you know, journaling moments, whatever it might be. And it's definitely a consistent element, not only in our workshops, but also in these books as well. We've got to slow down there. Reflection questions can help us capture and savor those learning moments, those aha moments, those meaningful moments, and they do prompt us to slow down. And that is a prerequisite in order for us to get clearer and to be more intentional. And all of that increases the probability of each one of us achieving desired results and building stronger relationships. And one of my favorite phrases is 'notice what you notice'. So, reflection questions is a way to notice what you notice.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  11:12  
Also to 'slow down to speed up', another one of Marsha's favorite phrases.

Marsha Clark  11:16  
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  11:18  
So, another consistent and powerful feature that you include in "Expanding Your Power" are the worksheets and the tools that reinforce those topics. And it really transforms this book into a personalized workbook or toolkit for the readers. And it makes me feel like I have my very own coach walking alongside me as I'm learning.

Marsha Clark  11:40  
Yeah, and it is just like with the reflection exercises. I believe strongly in the power of, if you will, providing relevant and meaningful tools that the listeners, the learners, the readers can use for immediate application of this content. And it's how I designed my workshop, it's how I coach. So, it was really just a natural extension of the style, my style or approach to offer those tools in the books as well. And I really don't think in terms of readers as much as I think in terms of learners. And the same is here on the podcast. I do presume that our listeners are more than passive participants, right, but are actively learning and engaging with the content in ways that they'll be able to use what they're hearing or reading in very real and productive ways.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  12:34  
And I love that consistency about you. And you even remind us in the book very early on about your favorite learning agility questions to help frame and apply what we're reading.

Marsha Clark  12:45  
We probably talk about these on every podcast because it is a reflection moment. And, you know, I like how you put that that these learning agility questions help us frame our experiences in a way that increases our opportunities to learn and apply what we've learned. So for our longtime listeners, you'll know these. For our first time listeners, these are important. What did I do? What did I learn? And how will this help me going forward? So that's part of why it's so important to me that each of the main content areas of the book, the books at this point, are supported with application materials whether they're reflection questions, worksheets, tools, checklists. I want to reinforce that learning right away.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  13:33  
And I think that's one of the reasons why your first book was so successful and will also make "Expanding Your Power", the second book, just as popular if not more.

Marsha Clark  13:43  
Well, and I hope so. You know, I've heard from many of our readers and listeners that they've personally used the worksheets with great results and others have used them for team learning and development. And the tools are often what differentiates my work from others who do similar work, because they'll tell you what to do. They won't help you figure out how to do it.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  14:02  
Right. You know, Marsha, you mentioned earlier that "Expanding Your Power" picks up where "Embracing Your Power" ends. Since this is a sneak preview episode, will you share what topics are covered in "Expanding Your Power"?

Marsha Clark  14:17  
Yes, I'd love to do that. So, in addition to the "Embrace Your Own Greatness" poem that I used to transition from book one to book two, I also include some reflection questions on raising self awareness since it's so very important to have that clarity before you're trying to build teams and influence organizations. And I also added in what I think is some very powerful content on the impact of trauma and how we as leaders need to understand and really acknowledge that impact on us, that impact of trauma as we're trying to lead people and produce results. And I was familiar with much of this content prior to the pandemic but it's become even more pronounced as we're trying trying to navigate organizational systems today in a post pandemic world that is different in many ways.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  15:06  
Yeah, I think we even added a new podcast episode to the content planning lineup so that you could introduce that content to our listeners.

Marsha Clark  15:15  
That's right. So, we squeezed that new episode in, actually, for next week. So, everyone, be sure to come back for that. And the title of that episode will be Building Safe Spaces. And in fact, our plan is to follow the outline of the book for the remainder of the year as closely as possible. So, the episodes for the rest of 2023 will align with the book chapters for "Expanding Your Power".

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  15:40  
Okay, that's super exciting. And you open the book with some information on trauma and psychological safety, then you pretty much jump right into the first main section on inspiring your teams. What will you be introducing in that section?

Marsha Clark  15:58  
So, in that section, will be content and tools on leading new teams. So you're brand new to the team? How do you get started, right? Also building high performance teams and the framework, I give a framework for that, and some tools, and then group dynamics, which will introduce a model of both understanding ourselves and others, which is important from a team dynamic or group dynamic through the lenses of our needs for inclusion, control, and openness. Aren't all of those quite interesting? And this specific content comes from the work of Will Schutz and what he calls his FIRO-B model. Now you're going to hear this again when we get to the that particular episode, but FIRO-B stands for Fundamental Interpersonal Relationship Orientation - Behavior. So, and most people are going to be unfamiliar with that unless they've gone through one of our programs or maybe have been exposed to it through a master's level OD or organizational psychology program. So, but that's, that's the team content.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  17:13  
Right. Well, I remember that assessment and model from the Power of Self Program. It's one of those well duh moments that I had where I always knew I had, you know, decently high control needs. I'm only saying decently because I'm comparing myself to my mother, honestly, with very high control needs. But everyone else around me seems to know that. But for me to see it in front of me in black and white was really fascinating. Wow. Apple, meet tree.

Marsha Clark  17:48  
Well, and also, what's fascinating for this one, the word control is such a loaded word. And what we want to talk about is that it's important to be in control, which is different than being controlling.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  18:04  
Thank you, thank you. That makes me feel better, because I feel like I have, I like to be in control. But I am, I really don't consider myself a controlling person.

Marsha Clark  18:15  
Which means I have to control everybody else and everything, right. But I do want to be in control. It is a great model and a tool for, you know, really better understanding what makes us tick, but also what can get in the way of working well as a team because we've all got different needs around these things. And I can't wait to discuss that model on the show. I think we have three different episodes dedicated to exploring it because it's rich.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  18:39  
It is rich in that super exciting. So, what else is in that section in the book on inspiring your team?

Marsha Clark  18:49  
So, we also explored the dynamics of change. And the title of that chapter is called, "The More Things Change, the More People Stay the Same". And it goes back to a body of work that I've been intrigued by for my entire career. And that's, you know, this idea of change management, because what is it, the one thing that's constant is change. And I think most of us have been living and leading in a world of constant change. And, you know, even as I say that I'm remembering a video that we did at EDS now probably some 30 plus years ago that talked about the permanent whitewater of change, right? Just think about that was three decades and you know, what felt like level five rapids you know, the really rough and tumble ones back then are still just as strong and nonstop today. So it's probably one of the most relatable topics that we'll cover, both in the book and here on the podcast.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  19:46  
Wow. So two phrases there - 'the permanent whitewater of change' and 'the more things change, the more people stay the same' - those are interesting, intriguing topics and I know, I'm guessing, there'll be some great content around change resistance as well.

Marsha Clark  20:06  
Well, yes, that along with some strategies, right. So, we're not just gonna talk about how hard it is or the resistance, but how to manage that resistance. And again, always a timely and relevant topic for sure. And then the last chapter of the team section is called "Ending Well and Starting Strong". And these, I'm going to share with our readers and our listeners here on the podcast two of my favorite tools that can help leaders who are transitioning from one role to another.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  20:06  
Wow, that one sounds really interesting because I've seen a lot of tools out there to help leaders onboard successfully, but I'm not sure I've ever seen anything around ending well. So, let's talk about that.

Marsha Clark  20:54  
So, your experience has been my experience as well, Wendi. We focus so much on the new that we forget about where we're coming from, if you will. And I would say even when you're helping leaders on board, that those strategies are more around the technical aspects of the role, but don't always address the people side of onboarding, which, of course, is what my work is all about is the people stuff. So we'll include some tangible recommendations for establishing relationships with peers, key stakeholders, and of course, the team. So I offer some very specific suggestions for the first 30 days and the second 30 days. And but before we go to that getting ready for the new role, I have found that very rarely do leaders do the end well when they're leaving a role. There might be some kind of farewell send off by the team. And, you know, what I'm talking about, though, is a very deliberate set of actions that a leader can take to ensure that they're not only leaving on very positive terms, but they're also setting up the team and their predecessor for success.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  22:03  
Yeah, I can't wait to learn more about that in an episode.

Marsha Clark  22:06  
I will tell you, it's one of the most popular tools with my coaching clients because some somebody is always transitioning to a new or different role - promotion, developmental assignment, whatever it may be. And, and they have told me, I know it's been my own experience because I used it many times, they declare that it adds to a much smoother transition that allows them then to focus on the new role opportunity rather than continuing to even getting pulled back into that old role.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  22:37  
I want to ask one question, just to take this just a little bit deeper, really quickly. I'm going off script here. What about when you're leaving the organization for, like completely, to take another role at a different company?

Marsha Clark  22:51  
Same. It's the same process. Don't burn any bridges.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  22:56  
Exactly. Well, I want to make sure that we hit on that aspect of it a little bit also. (We will.) Awesome. Okay, so then the third section of "Expanding Your Power" shifts the focus from that team orientation to looking at entire organizations overall, right?

Marsha Clark  23:14  
That's right. The third section is all about how we can use our power, our personal powe, to influence organizations.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  23:23  
And we're talking about all kinds of organizations, right, I mean, work environments as well as within our community.

Marsha Clark  23:28  
That's right, and the tools that I offer and I always try to make sure that they're covering, they cross all those boundaries very effectively.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  23:37  
Okay, so what do we have to look forward to in that section?

Marsha Clark  23:40  
So, we're going to explore organizational systems, through the lens of tops, middles, bottoms and customers, and see how those "spaces" and that's in quotes, if you will, because we talk about the top world, the top space, the top role, so using those terms interchangeably, but we're going to call them and look at how each of those can influence our thinking, how we therefore behave as a result, and the ultimate impact on the system, the organizational system itself. And this is what I think is fascinating content based on the work of Barry and Karen Oshry. And I was introduced to their work in my Master's program, and we'll get go into a whole lot more detail about how involved I got with them because I do view their work so strongly. And, because so many of the leaders that we work with operate most often in that middle when you think about tops, middles, bottoms and customers, the middle space of the organization, so we're going to do a deeper dive into the world of middles and we're dedicating an entire chapter to what we call "in the middle".

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  24:53  
Listen. For our listeners, I remember this exercise so clearly in the Power of Self Program. It was extremely enlightening and I think I was assigned the role of middle. We randomly drew, you know, for which one we were. And this was a powerful experience. I cannot wait for us to share this on the podcast.

Marsha Clark  25:19  
Yeah, it is. The exercise is called the Organization Workshop. And it's a fully immersive simulation experience in understanding how easy it is to get, we call it naturally, sucked into the reflexive responses when we're in that top, middle, bottom or customer spaces, and how frequently the system becomes dysfunctional and can even become toxic when we're unaware of that impact.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  25:46  
Yeah, I'm looking forward to this one. I'm curious to see how we're going to convey the immersiveness of that activity. But do you want to talk more about the power lab and that experience?

Marsha Clark  26:03  
We will. Yeah, I talk about it in the book a bit because the power lab is a 24 by 7 societal simulation. The organization workshop is one that's more, I would call it professional organization oriented. So I'm looking forward to that conversation as well. And we're going to have a bit of a mini reunion with three of the women who attended the lab together. And yet each of them were operating in three different spaces, the top-middle-bottom kind of thing, and they definitely have some stories to share about what they learned.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  26:39  
Can't wait for that. Well, I know that two of the other content areas in that section on influencing organizations has to do with the power of negotiating and influencing as a stand alone topic, right?

Marsha Clark  26:53  
That's right. So we've included two chapters, one is on "Asking For What You Want", which focuses a lot on being clear about what you want and then learning how to negotiate effectively. And what we find is that women can and do often negotiate quite successfully when they're doing it on behalf of someone or something else, right, for my team, for my company, and so on. We're really good advocates for others. But when it comes to asking for what we want for ourselves and advocating on our own behalf, we often lose our edge and give our power away. So that's always a big topic for the women in our programs to explore.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  27:32  
I agree that that is a very, very powerful topic, as well as the different influencing approaches. And I know that I found that to be enlightening when I went through the Power of Self Program and gave me a whole new perspective on how I need to be more strategic and how I try to influence others based on the situation versus just using my favorite go to approach.

Marsha Clark  27:57  
I think many of our program participants as well as my coaching clients find those different influencing strategies really powerful as well. And this is also where I introduce people to my favorite framework explaining the difference between advocacy, inquiry and integration, and how all three concepts are important when trying to influence others.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  28:18  
Yep, that's gonna be very enlightening to many people since I think most people assume that influencing is all about advocating, or maybe even manipulating. And so, they don't always consider the power of inquiry when it comes to actually moving people to a common conclusion.

Marsha Clark  28:37  
Right. Yeah, in addition to manipulating would be persuading, I just want you to think like I think, do what I want you to do. So you're right on all of that, Wendi, and people go straight to a model of telling or selling and they don't even think about other approaches that might be a bit more collaborative in nature. And that's why I think so many people do find this content compelling and helpful.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  29:01  
Yeah, it expands our toolkits.

Marsha Clark  29:03  
That's the whole point, right, expanding our power.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  29:06  
Yes. Pun intended. So, the final chapter in this book is titled "Belonging", which I love. Will you share a little about what we can expect from that chapter in the book?

Marsha Clark  29:19  
"Belonging" has become sort of a near and dear to my heart word because belonging in the sense of truly connecting with an organization or a team in a meaningful way, you know, it's that 'so what' that occurs when systems intentionally and authentically seek to create a space where everyone's valued and feels like they can really bring their whole self to the table. And what many organizations are now recognizing is the importance of the belonging aspect as a direct result, and  I want it, belonging is an outcome. It's not an input, it's an outcome. But it's the direct result of their diversity, equity and inclusion, both commitment and any initiatives that they might have. And we know that that DE&I are important for teams and organizations because the research that has been done supports that organizations who are affected there have improved performance with that diversity of thought. And we wrap up the book with this chapter as a way of delivering all the book's content as a present wrapped up with DE&I wrapping paper, if you will.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  30:33  
Yeah, I love that. You know, I even also see now a lot of times when I see the DE&I word, it's now DEI&B. I see that quite a bit in literature and email, newsletters, etc. So, of course, one of the best parts of your books is always the tools sections. And I know you will include another power packed set of resources in this book as well.

Marsha Clark  30:59  
Right. And, you know, our focus is on learning and so building capacity in ourselves as well as others. So for me, that's the core of what we do and why we do it. So we'll have examples of all our tools and templates in the book that align with the content that we'll be offering up.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  31:18  
Well, I can't wait to dig into the tools again. I'm realizing that even though I'm pretty sure I've seen all of them before going through the Power of Self Program and have been using my favorite since then, in the meantime, my own leadership experience has shifted and expanded. So revisiting some of these tools, again, from this different perspective will be really interesting for me personally.

Marsha Clark  31:41  
I think that's a really good point, Wendi. You know, we talk about that, even in our programs, that some of the tools and models will seem immediately applicable and relevant and others won't connect in that moment, right, that moment in time. And then a few months or even years go by and you go back and you reflect on some of the tools and the content and you'll have a completely different connecting point. The light bulb will go off, right. And that's one reason why we love it when women read the book together and discuss how it's relevant for them or not in that moment. It's in that sharing and the application examples that others offer where we can recognize that this might not be the tool or model I need today. But at some point in the future, this is going to totally connect with my situation. I'm going to be so glad I had it deep in my back pocket to pull out when I needed it. And I do have women often tell me they keep their materials close by. And that when they're looking for an answer, when they're looking for a process, a way, a tool, that's their first go to resource because even if they don't remember every single thing in it, they can go through, they'll know where to go. And they're telling me now that the first book, "Embracing Your Power" is doing that for them. And our hope is that "Expanding Your Power" will just be that companion book for them.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  31:48  
Love it. I Love it. Well, Marsha, I think we've covered all the main topics from your new book, "Expanding Your Power: A Woman's Opportunity to Inspire Teams and Influence Organizations". How does this feel to be talking about it officially?

Marsha Clark  33:17  
So, you know, I've been writing the book on and off for about nine months. So, I often laugh, our programs are nine months. So, it's like giving birth, right? And, it does feel that way. It feels wonderful to be able to talk about it and to now share it with our listeners.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  33:32  
Well, I know all of our listeners are eager to hear the details about when the book is actually going to hit the shelves. Do you have any updates on that you can share?

Marsha Clark  33:41  
Well, you know, it's a generic cycle. So I want to be clear about that. But the process of editing and then going to print and all of that. So, I expect it to be out in early 2024 which will be about two years after "Embracing Your Power" was published.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  33:58  
You know, "Embracing Your Power "was actually published, hit the shelves, on my husband's birthday. So that's how I remember it, January 4th of 2022, it came  out so that's awesome. And you know, I will be in line for my signed copy as soon as it's ready for preorder again.  I can't wait to get it. Are you going to have a book launch and do all the fun stuff we did with book one?

Marsha Clark  34:25  
Well, I'm sure we'll do some sort of book launch. You know, I laughingly called the "Embracing Your Power" as my COVID book. And so there were some limitations on public gatherings. And, you know, we had also supply chain issues because it was scheduled to come out earlier, right, (October) and you know, we'll be able to do a whole lot more of those things this time around. And, as our plans finalize, I'll be sure to share them with our listeners because I love getting to meet our readers firsthand and our listeners firsthand. Because I want to one share my appreciation with them and I just love meeting new people who are looking to learn.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  35:03  
Yes, absolutely. Well, obviously, as we get more firm dates and information, we'll be sharing that here on the podcast, and your social media pages. So, this feels a little like waiting for your favorite show to come out with the next season. I always set the date in my calendar so I don't miss the season premiere. So, I'm sure we'll be doing the same waiting to hear about news of the formal launch of the book.

Marsha Clark  35:04  
I love that analogy, Wendi. Thank you.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  35:06  
Yes. So, as we wrap up today, is there anything else you want to share with our listeners, sneak peek wise, about the book or the upcoming episodes?

Marsha Clark  35:38  
Yes, so, I have really always thought about books one and two, the "Embracing Your Power" and "Expanding Your Power" as companion books. So, the two together are the equivalent of what I think is a very content rich leadership development program. And I hope that those people who bought the first book will also buy the second one so that they have the more complete set of content, tools and stories. And I know some of our listeners might be thinking I wrote two books that have two revenue streams. That couldn't be further from the truth.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  36:13  
This is hard.

Marsha Clark  36:14  
Yeah, this is hard. I would never go put myself through that intentionally. So in reality, I realized that if I wrote one book, it would likely be 600 or 700 pages long, you know, the War of the Worlds kind of thing, and that would scare people away from reading it. I mean, it really, I remember as I was sitting down to outline it all and thinking, 'Oh, my gosh' you know. So, each of the books is about 300 pages and I hope, therefore, not as overwhelming. And, you know, one more note, and you heard it here first. I'm developing what I'm calling an on demand development offering. It'll have some fancier name than that, but we'll figure that out as we go. And it's going to combine some video vignettes of myself teaching, the books and the podcast, and it'll all be packaged within a variety of topics like building and sustaining trust, managing conflict, decision making, that sort of thing. And it's going to be designed for individuals or team learning that organizations can offer to their teams on a broader basis as well. And I'm, I've got the macro framework designed and now that the book is in editing, I can give a more focused attention to further developing this as an offering and really, that's in response to several requests from clients and prospects. So more to come on that.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  37:42  
Okay, so I love you know, being a content strategy marketing digital media person, I love the idea of slicing and dicing your information in different ways. So video, you know, podcast package, some some tips and tools, and probably some do some worksheets, and those kinds of things from the book, but then combining those around an overarching topic, and whether that's for an individual or here's the way you can learn as an individual, here's the way you can discuss it as a team. And taking all of this content around, expanding it and slicing it, if I can say that, in different ways, is incredibly informative and helpful because Marsha cannot be everywhere all the time, 24/7. And so this is a way where you can access her brain, on your own on demand. I love it. I absolutely love it. Well, Marsha, thank you for taking us through this sneak peek of the new book and letting us in on where you are in the publication process. I'm sure everyone who's listening is just as excited as I am to get their hands on this new book dig in. And so in the meantime, we'll be exploring the topics on the podcast beginning next week.

Marsha Clark  39:07  
That's right, you know. Thank you, listeners. It's been a real thrill to be able to introduce everyone to the design and the flow of the book. And you know, I'm with you, Wendi. I can't wait to get my hands on the final copy. So, thank you to you, Wendi, and everyone who continues to be so supportive and excited about this, and we appreciate it. We do hope that if you bought the first one, you'll buy the second one because it's not you know, I know some authors write the same book three times and it's a lot of repetition. This is unique and discreet content and so they really are companion books, not repetitive books.

Wendi McGowan-Ellis  39:47  
So, thank you, listeners, for joining us today on our journey of authentic, powerful leadership. Please continue to download, subscribe and share this podcast with all of your network from wherever you like to listen, and visit Marsha's website at, make sure you're signed up for her email list so that you will be the first to know everything about book two and how it's coming out. And also know that you can always, always, always connect with Marsha there to send questions or things that are on your mind or things that you would like to hear from us on the podcast as well.

Marsha Clark  40:24  
That's awesome. And yes, please do that, all those things, listeners, and I appreciate you. I appreciate you more than you'll ever know. So, as always, my goal is to support you and I hope that you'll support me. "Here's to women supporting women!"

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